/Image_001.png){kind=small}
The following email is included at this location, for the purpose of proving to you, the internet reader, that both DPMO and JPAC have had years of knowledge about the misidentification of the four dead from the Mohr B-17 crash site at Voves, France, on 6 September, 1943.
Until early, 2013, I continued to believe they failed to find the documentation I had been submitting for several years, still did not meet their standards. Then, I learned, they had no such standards, that was the story they gave to numerous researchers when they also sent in documentation regarding their research.
All this only proves beyond any doubt, that both DPMO and JPAC are totally dysfunctional and need to be deorganized and two new organizations replace them. It must also be required, that none of the current leadership in either organization is permitted to join the new organizations, or the same dysfunctional situation will continue to repeat itself.
One new organization, would handle the dead from our previous wars, through to the Vietnam War. A second organization, would be a military organization, that is concerned with our military dead from our current wars.
After the first email, you will find a second email from JPAC, dated 14 June2013, discussing a submission from 2010, otherwise, it took JPAC three years to answer a serious submission!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For thirteen years, especially the past four years, we spent tens of thousands of dollars to conduct further research and to obtain more documents to submit to DPMO and JPAC, we now know ...it will be wasted if we cannot get help for the twelve families involved in this submission. Please, contact your Senators and Congressional Representatives and ask them to visit the site and then, join others in forcing the required deep investigations and disbandment of the DPMO and JPAC organizations.
Civ JPAC CMD; Phillips, Rachel Civ JPAC CMD
Aloha Mr. Cole!
This email is to notify you that we received your inquiry you sent to Mrs. Courduff concerning the miss-identification from a crash site in Voves, France. I am forwarding your research to our J2 Historians for their tracking and research efforts. If you have further information to provide, please do not hesitate in contacting us directly.
Thank you for your patience in this matter. And thank you for your support in JPAC's mission of the fullest possible accounting of all Americans missing as a result of the nation's past conflicts..................Until They Are Home!
Regards,
Rachel (Rae) Phillips
Freedom of Information Act Officer and Correspondence Specialist
External Relations
Joint POW/MIA Accounting Command
"Until They Are Home!"
"E Huli Ho'i Lakou Ika Home!" "Bis Sie Nach Hause Kommen"
-----Original Message-----
From: Willis S. Cole, Jr "Sam" [mailto:ww1@ww1.org] Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 6:17 PM
To: Courduff, Gisela M Mrs CIV USA
Subject: Miss-identification of the four dead from the 6 September, 1943, crash site at Voves, France
Dear Mrs. Courduff,
As you know, I have been involved in working with the families of three of the four men from the 388th BG(H), 560th BS, aboard the B-17 SN: 42,
30203, named "Shack Up" who, along with their B-17, have been carried as Missing In Action, since 6 September, 1943.
The MIA men's names are: 1st Lt. Roy H. Mohr, Pilot; 2n Lt. Elmer F. Schultz, Co-Pilot; T/Sgt. Hartzell H. Jones, Flight Engineer; and S/Sgt Bernard A. Becker. Three have the Honor of being listed on a 'Wall of Remembrance.' However, 1st Lt. Mohr has never been Honored in such a manner.
For some time, as you also know, I have had copies the IDPF's of the missing Mohr crew dead, as well as those of the four Melville crew dead.
Who also died on 6 September, 1943, aboard the B-17, SN: 42-30201, named "Shedonwanna?" All four of the Melville crew dead, were later
identified as the dead from a 6 September, 1943, B-17 crash site, located just to the south of Voves, France in western France. This location being approximately 192 miles to the west of the last "officially" reported location of the Melville B-17, by the returning air crews of the 388th Bomb Group.
The Mohr MIA crewmen's IDPFs, as well as the follow up, Evader reports of three of the Mohr crew survivors and the POW reports of the three
Mohr crewmen, who became POWs are very specific, concerning where the six Mohr crew survivors landed. All specify, they landed in the
vicinity of Coudray, France, located 33.8 miles to the east of the crash
site at Voves. The three men who became POWs, were all wounded and were in the village of Coudray for a period of three hours before the Germans arrived to turn them into POWs. Along with French Resistance reports
and a story by a French lady, who later researcher the history of the
three Mohr crew Evaders while in the Coudray, there can be no doubt, the Mohr B-17 overflew Coudray, with the last sighting, being no less than 10 miles to the west of Coudray, or approximately 23 miles from the Voves crash site and flying toward that crash site location when it was last seen.
All six of the surviving Melville crewmen, became POWs and none of their POW reports really match with solid information as to the location of
their 'shoot down' location. I have sent several hours interviewing the last 'living' Melville crew survivor and based on what we have
discovered together. He was the first to agree when questioned, before he left France for the USA, that they must have landed near Voves. This was based on a single German receipt, that he was given to account for the personable items the Germans took from him, when he was captured. On that receipt, was the word Chartres, which is also the name of the largest city near Voves, France. Based on a leading question, Tuvman used that word, Chartres, which was also the location of the cemetery where the Germans buried the four Unknown dead from the 6 September, 1943, crash site. S/Sgt. Bernard Tuvman, the Melville Left Waist Gunner (not the RAG, as reported on the MACR and other documents) agreed, he
must have landed at Voves, near Chartres. The good news, is that Tuvman is a man who kept souvenirs, including that receipt.
Upon sending a copy of the receipt to several German military historians with whom I network, I was told the use of Chartes on the German document, indicated it was printed at a German Air Base and nothing else. Thus, the one item that was used as a foundation brick to help
add future evidence as to location of the Melville crash site, is based
on false information. Which, Bernard Tuvman is most willing to testify to at this time. It is now obvious to an honest researcher/reviewer of the process of identification used to identify the dead from the Voves, France, B-17 crash site, on 6 September, 1943, can be directly traced back to several reported circumstances. Which were used as the a foundation to begin the miss-identification of the dead from that crash site. Once that process began, using those circumstances as the foundation, very effort was made to continue the original
miss-identification of the dead and each new item of information was manipulated as required, to support the original, first
miss-identification!
Now, at this point, I do wish to state emphatically, that I can also
fully explain and excuse the Graves Registration personnel involved in the original recovery of the Unknown remains of four aircrew dead from their original burial location in the City of Chartres, France, and the
GR personnel who worked on gathering the information from interviews with the French citizens of Voves. I have met a fair number of WWII Graves Registration personnel involved in the process of recovering American dead during and after WWII. As I have been interested in the
operation of Graves Registration during both World War One and World War Two, I took the time to sit down with these men and discuss, their
various experiences during and after WWII. At this time, I can state with secure knowledge, that none I have met, had ever seen a B-17 up close, flown in a B-17, or had idea of the ability of a B-17 to absorb damage and the distances a B-17 might fly, if various states of damage were involved.
When the GR personnel were involved in recovering 'isolated' dead, if the recovered dead did not have ID tags, the GR men sought input from the local citizens for all the information they may have, as to how the Unknown remains arrived at the location, where recovered. Later, during the 'identification process' of the Unknown dead, this information might become the vital link to the first step in identifying the Unknown remains.
Mrs. Courduff, at this point, I believe, I can present to the correct
party and organization in Washington, D.C., how the dead from the Voves crash site came to be miss-identified. At the end of this presentation,
I do believe, the party to whom I will present the facts and evidence I have found, will fully agree with what I have found during my research. In that, the four dead from the Voves, France, of 6 September, 1943,
B-17 crash site, were miss-identified as being the four dead from the Melville crew dead.
When in fact, the dead from that crash site are the four dead from the Mohr crew, who are still carried as being MIA!
For instance, the four Mohr crew dead and their B-17, can be placed at a hard location and time, in relation to the time the B-17 crash at Voves. It overflew Coudray, approximately 17 minutes and 33.8 miles from the time the B-17 crashed at Voves. While, the closest the Melville B-17 can 'officially' be placed to Voves, is when it was last seen in a
fatal, right spin, with the number one engine on fire, the left wing on fire, the nose on fire and five to six parachutes were seen, twenty
miles to the west of Strasbourg, France. Approximately 192 miles to the east of Voves. It would have taken an undamaged B-17, roughly one and a half hours, at the 388th Group's combat formation forward flight speed
to reach Voves from the point the Melville B-17 was last reported to have been seen. In addition, the damaged Melville B-17, basically enclosed in flame, would have had to overfly the survivors of the six other B-17s that were lost along that line of flight, including the six wounded and Evader survivors of the Mohr crew. A search of all reports, will prove that no survivor on the ground, nor any French citizen along the required flight path, reported an overflying B-17, along the flight route the damaged Melville B-17 would have to have taken to reach the Voves crash site.
No one, during the Graves Registration identification process, leading
to the miss-identification of the dead at Voves, reviewed the hard facts of 388th Mission Report of that date. No one reviewed the exact location, the Melville B-17 was last 'officially' was seen and the
exact location the Mohr B-17 can 'officially' be proven to have been seen. No one involved, had the ability to know and understand, the damage involved with the Melville B-17 and its last 'official' position. In an 'officially reported condition' that somehow, would have permitted the Melville B-17 to travel the 192 miles from its last 'official' position near Strasbourg to allow the Melville B-17, to be the B-17 that did crash at Voves on that date. In addition, no one working in the GR identification process, had the ability to determine
the exact damage of the Mohr B-17 would have permitted the Mohr B-17 to fly beyond forty miles from its last seen 'official' location. If they
had, the miss-identification process would never have taken place, as
the Melville B-17 loss would have been removed from the possible dead at the Voves location, leaving only the Mohr crew dead to account for those dead.
Mrs. Courduff, I do realize the above may contain more than you need to know, to answer the questions I have been leading up to in this email.
However, I do want you to know, the Melville was described to be in a fatal spin, meaning it fell to ground somewhere very close to
Strasbourg. The Mohr B-17 was last seen 33.8 miles from the Voves crash site, well within the required air and time for it to have been the B-17
that crashed at Voves.
I also realize, that many people will want much more proof and at this time, Carol and I are prepared to travel to Washington on our own time and our own expense, to provide a full presentation to the correct government organization and personnel to provide extensive evidence and
hard proof, based on French, American and German documents our personal research and interviews across the USA and France, that the dead
identified as being the Melville crew dead! Are not the Melville crew dead, as the remains from the Voves crash site are in reality, the
miss-identified remains of 1st. Lt. Mohr, 2nd Lt. Schulz, T/Sgt. Jones and S/Sgt Becker.
It is time for the USA, to come forward, agree that those men deserve to be removed from their MIA listing, their 'official' remains be properly MDNA identified and reburied as the families request. There are still living siblings of the three families I have been working with. It is obvious, they have reached an age, where this should no longer be delayed. So, they can know the truth, before they reach the end of
their lives.
In that light, I believe, you know exactly how this has to be done and as stated, Carol and I are prepared to do what ever we have to do, for the required process to take place.
At this time, I wish to request, that you advise us of what we must do and help us to begin the process, by providing the names, titles, organization, official addresses and the process we need to follow to do what must be done?
I also have other information on the Melville crash situation. However,
I will send you another email concerning what I have found and resolved about the Melville crew dead loss. Indicating, that what we can now
prove about the Voves, 6 September, 1943, B-17 crash situation, no longer requires us to first, find the true Melville crash site and account for the four Melville crew dead.
Additional e-mail
This is the follow up to my email of yesterday, concerning the miss-identification of the eight Melville/Mohr crew dead at the 6
September, 1943, crash of a B-17, at Voves, Eure-Et-Loir 28, France. As stated in my previous email, I am positive that we are now in a position to disprove all other claims, that the Voves crash site is the Melville crash site. When, it is actually the crash site of the B-17, SN:
42-30203, piloted by 1st Roy H. Mohr, Jr. This includes, following and disproving the identity process used, that led to the miss-identifying
of the dead from that crash to become the Melville crew dead.
Now to the true location of the Melville B-17. I have enjoyed access to a vast of amount of information, that was certainly unavailable to
the Graves Registration personnel involved at the Voves, B-17 crash site and most likely, the GR personnel seeking the identity of the dead at
the true Melville crash site. None enjoyed much of the information I have been able to access and compare on a one to one basis as I have had available for my research.
For instance, there is not one document from the 388th Bomb Group's 19th Mission to Stuttgart and bombing at Strasbourg, that positions the
Melville B-17 more than 35 miles to the west of Strasbourg. In fact, I have only found one entry that places the Melville B-17, as far as 35 miles to the west of Strasbourg. All the rest, places the Melville B-17 going into a fatal spin 20 miles to the west of Strasbourg. At that
time and distance from Strasbourg, the Melville B-17 was last reported by numerous returning 388th personnel to be in a fatal, right spin, with its #1 engine on fire, its left wing on fire and the nose was also on
fire. Five to six parachutes were seen by those 388th Bomb Group crew men, as they departed the Melville 'shot down' location, on a heading that would take the group to Troyes, then to the south of Paris and on
to the Channel and England. As the Group approached and passed Troyes, on a new heading to the east-Southeast of Paris, another four B-17's
were shot down. A fifth was shot down to the southeast of Paris and a sixth, the B-17 flown by 1st Lt. Mohr left the 388th formation to the south of Paris. In due time, six of the seven crash sites were found and five of the seven downed B-17's crews were fully accounted for.
However, as explained in my previous email, due to an amazing set of circumstances, the first B-17 of the 388th Bomb Group to be shot down in France, after the identity process began, when the dead member of the Mohr crew were recovered from a communal cemetery at Chartres, France, after being the final and seventh B-17 of the 388th Bomb Group show down in France that day. Somehow, I now know how, the first shot down 388th B-17s, with the distance of 192 miles between the first and last
(seventh) B-17 of the 388th Bomb Group shot down over France, became the miss-identified crash site of the first shot down B-17 and the actual,
seventh shot down B-17 to be carried as Missing In Action to this date.
As you know, you have helped furnish me with all the Unknown X-files for those regions of France, involved in this research. I have now,
reviewed those files several times and to date, I have been unable to
find any existing Unknown from those files, that might account for the still to be found, true Melville crash site. The most likely reason
this has happened, is the miss-identification of the dead from the Voves crash site. Which, resulted in the removal of those Melville
miss-identified dead's IDPF files being removed from the Graves Registration MIA file base of the MIA's still to be found and identified. We know, absolutely, that the Germans recovered and identified one of the Melville crew, Aldenhoevel. Then the Germans buried him and two other Unknowns, as far as we know, at the same cemetery. Leaving one of the Melville crew dead, as of the day the Germans buried those three, to result in the remaining un-located Melville crewman that should still be considered as MIA, unless his remains were found and then, those remains were also miss-identified. As I cannot find any X-file that might account for that one remaining Melville crewman.
There can be only two outcomes of such a German burial report.. The first is that, the three real Melville crew dead were first recovered as three Unknown dead and that the fourth dead crewman has never been found. I suspect, if that was the situation, that one still MIA to be found and identified, will be will be Walter Creamer, the Tail Gunner. As there is no X-file dead that appear to meet such a situation, it appears the now three Unknown Melville crewmen's remains were also miss-identified as the dead from another lost bomber crew. If that did take place, in the end, there will be at least two sets of
miss-identified dead and it will be another bomber's dead crew who will remain MIA. Who might still be located in the X-files, I now possess.
With that in mind, I will again review the X-files I have, to search for
a set of three or four Unknowns recovered somewhere close to what will prove out to be the real Melville crash site location.
At this time, I have sent to 37 letters to villages and towns in the suspected region of France, where I believe, the true Melville crash site will be located. A major problem might be, that there is a circumstance of a dual miss-identification of the Melville B-17 and the four associated dead. If so, the only way to find those dead, might be some file that will compare the identified dead, X-file dead and MIA personnel from specific geographical areas of France. To date, I have had three answers to my letters. Two state, the locals are being asked
about any knowledge they might have and in the third, I have been sent a newspaper article from a local military historian. He states, he has located every crashed aircraft in that general area and none can be the Melville B-17. Which to me, means that I will have to duplicate each of his identifications to re-verify and agree or disagree with his previous conclusions. It is very possible, that the French military historian in question, may be mistaken in his crash site identities. As, I have all ready researched a few instances where they do have their ID wrong.
Most, make such research very hard to verify, as they normally refuse to share equal research data.
In conclusion, I believe, there are now two remaining goals. First, to begin a proper identification process of the crashed B-17 at Voves 28, France, to prove those dead are the true Mohr crew dead and not the miss-identified Melville crew dead. The second, is to review all of the identified dead, we can locate along the 388th flight corridor of 6 September, 1943, to re-verify all such crash sites and the dead involved. To properly duplicate the identity process of any dead from
those locations, that may have been recovered and miss-identified as being other than the Melville dead, they have truly been.
In due time, the truth should emerge, leading to the proper identification of the crash sites that might be involved, including the true crash sites of both the Melville and Mohr B-17's.
Please, feel free to ask any questions you may wish to ask about this email. And, please send me the proper TAPC office, person to contact, their contact address and all information required for us to seek the proper resolve of the now obvious, miss-identification of the eight WWII Melville and Mohr air crew dead.
Most Sincerely and in Remembrance, Willis S. Cole, Jr. "Sam"
Executive Director/Curator
Battery Corporal Willis S. Cole Military Museum 13444 124th Ave NE
Kirkland, WA 98034-5403 U.S.A. (425)823-4445
CC: Mohr, Becker and Jones families.
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-----Original Message-----
From: Mitchell, Francis S. Civ JPAC ER [mailto:Francis.Mitchell@JPAC.PACOM.MIL]
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 1:42 PM
Note: Date - three years apart
To: ww1@ww1.org
Subject: FW: Miss-identification of the four dead from the 6 September, 1943,
crash site at Voves,
France (UNCLASSIFIED)
Aloha Mr. Cole,
Thank you for contacting JPAC. I am working with Ms. Rachel Phillips in the
External Relations section
and recently came upon your emails to her.
Because I didn't find a follow up response, I wanted to provide you with one.
Our JPAC historians have researched all of your documents and materials.
The historians also checked with the French air associations in central France
and they all believe that the
possible mixed-up aircraft crashed near Strasbourg, just as the MACR says, and
not somehow in Voves.
Per our historians, there doesn't appear to be any evidence to confirm your
theory, either in the
documents we have or in the experience of the French wreck hunters the
historians talked to.
If you have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me.
VR
Francis
Francis S. Mitchell
Correspondence Specialist
External Relations
Joint POW/MIA Accounting Command
francis.mitchell@jpac.pacom.mil
Modified For The Internet By: Willis S. Cole, Jr. "Sam" - Battery Corporal Willis S. Cole Military Museum - 23Mar14 - (11prt-B&W-JPACEmail-(1))
